Estrogens vs. Androgens

We live in a world of estrogen dominance and this is a leading factor in many of the health problems people face today. To investigate this we’ll discuss what estrogens and androgens are, the many effects of estrogen dominance, how we become overloaded with four bad kinds of estrogens, and lastly what you can do about it.

This article is important for both men and women. Women have much more estrogen than men. Men have many more androgens then women. But both genders have both. And both are affected by the modern day environment to become estrogen dominant in a way that undermines their health and performance.

Different Types of Estrogen

There are many hormones in the body, in fact, there’s over 240 of them. For this discussion we need to dive into a few of these varieties. Estrogen is not just one hormone, but a class of several different forms.

  • Estrone (E1) – One of the worst estrogens appears to be 16 alpha-hydroxy-estrone. However, there are also good estrones like 2 hydroxy-estrone.
  • Estradiol (E2) – Excessively elevated levels of estradiol are the most common of the  “bad” estrogens.
  • Estriol (E3) – Of all the estrogens, estriol appears to have the best health producing effects.
Conversion of Androgens and Estrogens

The conversion of many hormones including the androgens and estrogens

So its important to note that while all estrogens are necessary in both men and women, especially women, their effects will depend on the ratio and amounts of them.

As we’ll discuss in more depth, estrogen dominance is an overburdening of excess estrogens, especially of the “bad kinds”, leading to all sorts of health issues.

The Androgens and their Effects

  • Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) – A “weak” androgen with very low biological potency as far as male sex effects, but many other important anti-aging roles in the body.
  • Androstenedione – The precursor to testosterone with roughly 20 percent of its potency.
  • Testosterone – The most well known of androgens, because of its strong effects.
  • Androsterone – A breakdown product of the androgens with one-seventh the strength of testosterone.
  • Dihydrotestosteone (DHT) – A metabolite of testosterone, with excesses of it playing a role in male pattern baldness and prostate issues.

Having your androgenic hormones working properly will allow you to build and retain muscle mass better, support weight loss, enhance sex drive and function, increase “zest and vitality” and a sense of well-being in life, and even support cognitive function.

In addition to these effects for both sexes, androgens serve as the precursors to estrogens. So the androgens are required as precursors to some of the hormones they need and must be converted.

The Bad Effects of Estrogen Dominance

So just what will estrogen dominance do to you? Here’s a list of a variety of illnesses and problems it can contribute to.

  • Weight gain (especially being unable to get rid of “stubborn” fat)
  • Lack of Sex Drive
  • Impotence
  • Bone loss and osteoporosis
  • Cancer, especially breast in women and prostate in men
  • Diabetes
  • Breast enlargement (early development for girls, and also “man boobs” or gynecomastia for guys)
  • Acne
  • Foggy Thinking
  • Insomnia
  • Impaired athletic performance
  • Immune system compromise
  • Low energy and “mid-day slump”
  • Slow healing
  • And more
Cellulite and Gynocomastia

Estrogen dominance can lead to many health problems and “cosmetic” issues like cellulite and “man boobs”.

Three Additional Hormonal Problems

Age Related Decline

Unfortunately, after puberty our “healthy” hormones, in both men and women go on a decline that appears to last the rest of our lives. It appears we’re made to become men and women, and be able to pass on our genes, peaking in our 20’s, then it’s a slow decline from there.

Eventually, this leads to menopause in women and andropause in men. Both of these occur when the hormones have suffered enough to lead to some massive changes in the body.

While this is a natural process it can be “put off”, and certainly become an easier transition, by taking the right steps to support your hormones. The whole field of anti-aging is largely about keeping your hormones at the healthful levels of your youth.


Aromatase is an enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens. While necessary, this can become a problem especially in men if it is being done too much. If so, this takes all the hormones that would give you health and vitality and convert them into something that does the opposite.

A variety of factors, like too much toxicity and impaired detoxification can contribute to increased aromatization.


Aromatization is the conversion of health androgens into often unhealthy estrogens.

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin

SHBG, as the name suggests, is a protein that binds to androgens making them unavailable for use in the body. This and other binding molecules are the difference between total and free testosterone. The sad fact is that testosterone can’t deliver its benefits if it’s bound up. While SHBG serves its role in the body, once again, too much can contribute to estrogen dominance.

Our Overly Estrogenic Environment

As previously mentioned the modern day environment is the biggest contributor to estrogen dominance and all of the problems that it brings. Here we’ll explore just how prevalent these estrogens are in our everyday lives.

The different types of estrogens can be classed in a number of ways.


From pesticides, chemicals, plastics and more. Common sources include:

  • Bovine Growth Hormone
  • Tap water
  • Laundry detergents
  • Chemicals in sunscreens
  • BPA found in most plastic
  • Food coloring like Red 3
  • Parabens found in cosmetics and shampoos
  • Insecticides like DDT, DDE, indane (banned in Europe but still in use in the USA), methoxychlor, etc.

A heavy dose of estrogenic pesticides and insecticides.


These estrogenic compounds are found in nature. If we lived in a “natural” world these probably would not be a problem, but in combination with the other estrogens it is best to avoid these completely.

  • Soy – Soy is touted for its benefits as a widely consumed component of Oriental diets. However, they almost always eat it in fermented forms (miso, tempeh, natto) that break down estrogenic compounds in it. It is best to avoid processed soy foods like soy milk and tofu completely.
  • Hops – Found in 99.99% of beers. After the German Beer Purity Laws it was discovered that the women who collected hops for beers experience earlier menstrual periods. Also men suffered from reduced libido and feminization.
  • Flax seeds – Touted as a health food for its omega-3 content, this may lead to estrogen problems. A much better similar food is chia seeds. Although defatted flax seeds appear to help pull out excess estrogen from the body.
  • Licorice root – A common harmonizing herb in many Chinese herbal formulas. Unfortunately it also has very strong estrogenic effects.
  • Coffee – One study found it to increase estradiol levels.

Its not just the calories that contribute to a beer gut, but estrogenic hops causing fat accumulation.


While many people in the field of health are aware of the problematic effects of heavy metal toxicity it is not well known that these metals contribute to estrogen dominance. Heavy metals contaminated products include:

  • Fish (farmed fish is even higher in heavy metals than wild caught)
  • Most tap water supplies
  • Household cleaning agents
  • Cookware
  • White Flour
  • Deodorants
  • Pharmaceuticals
  • Pollution (simply breathing in major cities causes consumption of lead and other heavy metals)
  • Mercury Dental Fillings
  • Vaccines
  • And much more

A healthy dose of Omega-3’s, but an unhealthy dose of Mercury, PCB’s and more.


These toxins are from various fungi that contaminant many foods.

  • Aflatoxins found in peanuts, cotton, corn and other grains.
  • Ochratoxins found in beer, wine, coffee, and much more.
  • Most cheeses and coffee are full of various sorts.
  • Black molds and other hidden dangers within your home.
  • If you suffer from candida overgrowth your body may be producing excess estrogens from within.
  • And many more

Do you know what’s growing on your coffee?

The best thing you can do is limit your exposure to all of the above. But because these things are everywhere that’s a tall order even for the most health-conscious of people.

The Superfood of the 21st Century

Because of all of the estrogens in the environment our androgens, for both men and women, need support.

Even if we do everything we can, and let’s face the truth, that very few people are, avoiding estrogens is like a losing a war against an over-whelming enemy.

So let’s bring in the CAVALRY.

Earlier we discussed phyto-estrogens. These are estrogen mimicking compounds in various plant foods. While some may serve a purpose, the problem is with all the other estrogens, it is probably best to avoid these as much as possible.

Many people in the field of health are aware of these. But most are not aware of phyto-androgens. Part of this reason is that these are far more rare.

Luckily there is one substance that is fully loaded with them, the pollen of pine trees. (As a side note, pine nuts do contain some androgens, but in much smaller amounts.)

Pine Pollen Release

As part of the reproduction of pine trees, pine pollen is loaded with phyto-androgens which the human body can benefit from.

Pine pollen, as the male reproductive part of a pine tree, has many phyto-androgens.

Pine pollen contains gibberellins which are structurally very similar to testosterone. In fact, they have been found to actually connect with testosterone receptors in the human body. Basically, they can mimic testosterone in the body and, as Stephan Harrold Buhner tells us in his book The Natural Testosterone Plan, “because of their adrenal and pituitary actions, they stimulate androgen production in the body; energy levels increase.” They act as prostate regulators, up­regulating when the prostate is too small (one study had castrated rats keep their prostates from shrinking) and down­ regulate when the prostate is too big and inflamed. They are also anti­cancerous and anti­-inflammatory in the rest of the body.

Pine pollen also contains over 30 different kinds of brassinosteroids. Two of these brassinosteroids are used in the mechanism through which the liver safely removes xenoestrogens and other chemicals from the body. They have strong anti­viral actions and are, “considered to be highly novel steroidal compounds with unique anticancer actions while possessing very low toxicity.”

Pine pollen has substances that are similar to testosterone, DHEA, androstenedione, androsterone and more. And that’s not all. Its chock full of nutrition with over 200 bioactive antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, amino acids and other super nutrients.

Understand that this is not like hormone replacement therapy. These are small amounts of hormones, but combined with the intelligence of all the necessary co-factors found in pine pollen. This doesn’t boost your hormones to unsafe levels, but instead helps to educate your body towards a more normal or optimized function.

We believe this is such an important superfood for people living today that we’ve made high quality pine pollen available at a low price. Go here now to get the full details and pick up your bag.

Pine Pollen 50 gram bag

Wolfe, David, Longevity Now
Buhner, Stephen, The Natural Testosterone Plan: For Sexual Health and Energy

Estrogens vs. Androgens was last modified: April 25th, 2015 by Logan Christopher
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Logan Christopher has been called the Physical Culture Renaissance Man for his many wide-ranging feats of strength. His interest in herbalism, hormones and health began with seeking peak performance mentally and physically.


Estrogens vs. Androgens — 67 Comments

  1. You guys are incredible. I know a girl in Pasadena and she was having hormone problems a few months ago. I recommended pine pollen, 1 teaspoon a day and within a few days, she wrote me to tell me that her attitude had changed. She was no longer depressed, feeing exhausted or angry. Pine Pollen really is great, both for men and for women.

    • Thanks for sharing that story Bogdan. We love hearing all the different ways pine pollen (and our other herbs) help people.

      • Sure. Actually got these yesterday in an email format from the lab. Total Test =723 (before=382) and Estradiol =43 (before=97).

        • JOHN…I am VERY INTERESTED in your LABS.
          I have been dealing with this “Low ‘T'” issue for a few years now, and DOUBLING your Testosterone and HALVING your Estradiol would be Industry Shaking News!!! The “Low ‘T'” Industry is a 2 BILLION Dollar a year Industry, to which I have contributed myself in the past, but would absolutely prefer this “natural” option if it is viable.
          Can you share some more specific info?
          How old are you?
          How long between Labs? What TIME-FRAME to achieve these results?
          How much Pine Pollen Daily?
          Pine Pollen ONLY? Anything else in your Daily Routine?

          Were there any other mitigating factors…other diseases which suppressed “T” production, etc?
          Anything which might detract from the causal link in the increase of “T” and decrease in “E” to the Pine Pollen?

          This is a very encouraging result, and I hope you will take the time to share with me–with US all–your success story in much more detail.
          Thank you and cheers!
          scott surber

          • Hi All,
            Haven’t been on here in a while. As I posted before, I could keep my Total Test consistently between 650-750 using Pine Pollen Tincture and Powder every morning on an empty stomach. I first down the powder ( a big scoop in water) and then the tincture (2-3 dropper fulls) under the tongue and hold it until it dissolves in my mucus membranes. A few things, 1)I am 51, 2) Train Heavy 3 days per week (HIT) 3) Intermittent Fasting 16 hours Everyday-whole Organic foods-balanced diet (about 1:1:1 protein Carb Fat). I ran an experiment just recently and added to the above pine pollen morning routine: Ashwaganda (1tsp), 200mg Tongkat, Mucuna (1tsp), Cistanche (1tsp), and a pinch of Shilajit pitch. I did this for 10 days straight and only in the morning. My Test levels topped out at 1003! Now this is alot of herbs and extreme (and a bit pricey) but it shows that with the right Diet, Lifting and Herbs this can be done. After reading Logans most recent post about cycling, my plan is to cycle the above Herbs; one different herb each morning ( a big scoop). My goal is to stablize a high test level for the rest of my life with diet, exercise and Herbs. I’ll keep you posted.

  2. I brought the megadose can of pine pollen a couple of months ago. I take this as the powder and a tincture twice a day. I was surprised to see my blood levels of testosterone double and estrogen cut in half. Obviously, the alcohol extract was very Androgenic and raised my Test levels but it appears that the powder is Anti-Estrogenic! The combo of powder and tincture is very powerful indeed. Great Stuff indeed.

      • Sure. Actually got these yesterday in an email format from the lab. Total Test =723 (before=382) and Estradiol =43 (before=97). Sorry about the double post.


  3. Hi Logan, would this be helpful for gaining muscle? I have 8% body fat and don’t think estrogen is a problem for me, but it is very difficult for me to put on lean muscle. Currently I supplement with Creatine. Also, I have CLA which would be useful since I don’t eat red meat but I usually use up my fat grams on eggs and wild salmon. Thanks for your advice and expertise.

  4. Thanks for the great infos. Definitely I will order
    But before that I want to know , is pine
    Pollen good for female?
    And is chi seed contain estrogen ?
    Does superman herb lower estrogen ?

    • Yes pine pollen works great for females too. I’m guessing you mean chia seed (not chi seeds though I like that name!) which to the best of my knowledge do not have estrogen and thus are a better choice than flax. According to some test results pine pollen does lower estrogen in addition to helping with the androgens.

    • Great question. There seems to be some debate. I believe that the estrogenic compounds would be in the oil but I’m not 100% sure. Also several people say the defatted flax seed powder is great for pulling excess estrogens out of the body.

  5. Love the info on Pine Pollen and plan to start it. Still have concerns though:

    1) I know it’s natural but I’ve read where it’s actually a source of “bio-identical” testosterone (and other androgens). I understand that it shouldn’t decrease our own natural production of androgens, but I’m concerned that, similar to when taking steroids, that any health benefits or “gains” I get from it will be lost if I stop and I go back to my lousy baseline. I would want it to reset and “upshift” my “natural baseline” so that my baseline is now healthier. Does it do anything like that??

    2) I currently have a lot of bodyfat to lose even despite regular hardwork in the gym (hence why I’m trying pine pollen); with that I’m concerned that my high bodyfat may aromatize any additional T I produce -even if it’s natural through pine pollen (and I have tested at high estradiol in the past). Is this a legit concern? Could I take the pine pollen to help with hormone-related weight-gain? Or would it be best to lose weight FIRST then try it for additional benefits??


    B D

  6. Re my first question essentially my concern is that the pine pollen won’t really help *solve* the problem, I’m concerned it would just mask it like a “natural medication”. I could be wrong though hence why I ask…..

    • Great questions BD. I think the pine pollen can help you out. One thing it does appear to do is to reduce estrogen as well, like the one guy who took both the powder and tincture and saw his testosterone double and estrogen cut in half. Because its not just “testosterone” there is so much more to it, it works somewhat intelligently with your body to optimize your hormones. So yes I’d say its working at cause.

      If you’re worried about aromatization of the testosterone you might also look at Tongkat Ali or Nettle Root which can help to limit that from happening, as you’re correct, more bodyfat means more aromatization.

      All in all I would say one or more of these herbs should be able to assist you in losing weight. Let me know if you have more questions.

      • Thanks for the reply! Very helpful info, and I’ll definitely come back to you with any further questions. I’m happy to know that it helps address the *Cause*.

        I suspect some of my weight issues are somewhat estrogen-related (whether the estrogen caused/contributed to the weight-gain or the weight-gain caused estrogen issues -or BOTH- is a whole other issue); but I strongly suspect insulin and/or cortisol play a significant role as well. How well does pine pollen help with insulin- and cortisol-related weight issues??

        • Excess body fat creates more aromatase enzyme which then leads to more bodyfat. Its a vicious cycle that supports itself. And yes, those other hormones are at play too.

          I wouldn’t say pine pollen specifically helps insulin or cortisol, but it has so many micro-nutrients that it likely will help out a little bit.

          For insulin and cortisol eleuthero may help with both, as an adaptogen.

          Some other options might be shilajit and triphala.

          • Thanks again……so bottom line (for now…) :should I go ahead and try it like now to help with weight loss, or might it better to lose some excess first???

  7. Pine pollen appears to answer some of my concern about testosterone (“T”)-to-estrogen (“E”) conversion & acheiving proper male T/E balance while using herbs to boost testosterone. For similar anti-aromatization & T/E balance I’ve also heard of DIM (Diindolyethane), found in broccoli but not in high enough amounts to make broccoli-eating a workable option, leaving only DIM supplementation. If using, say, one of Adam Armstrong’s testosterone-boosting smoothie formulas (for which he recommends your herbs), is pine pollen alone a sufficient anti-aromatization strategy? If so, how much? Or do you recommend more herbs/supplements/what-have-you to prevent countering the aromatization problem?

    • Truthfully its likely going to depend on the person. There are other compounds in other dark leafy greens and berries that help. I don’t really believe that idea that you won’t get the benefit just from broccoli alone. There’s a whole lot more in there besides just DIM. Beets and beet juice for the TMG can help. As for herbs check out what nettle root and tongkat ali can do on that front as well.

  8. Hi iam 67 male my T levels is down way below the number for my age i work out 4 days a week weight lifting i am not maintaining mass i saw my doctor who gave me two injections over a 2 month period T. levels went up just a wee bit i have no sex drive as i cant keep an erection for long. what do you suggest i try. Can your products work seeing the injections didnt.

    • Did you just get your T levels measured or where the other hormones and components like estrogen, SHBG, tested too? It’s not just about T so those could show more of what your specific issue happens to be. And on that note, herbs don’t just raise T, they do much more. So I would say yes they may help, even though injections failed. It’s worth a shot and we have a money back guarantee if they don’t.

      I would recommend you get both the pine pollen tincture and tongkat ali. Take those both at the same time and see how they work for you. Please let us know either way as I’m curious your results.

    • Pine pollen might help. Really can’t say for sure. Testosterone is a precursor to estadiol so that could converted easily. You would also want to look at phytoestrogen containing plants and herbs like shatavari, soy (I would avoid anything not fermented), flax seeds, black cohosh and others.

      • so ground flax seeds are out of the question? I put tablespoon of it in my oatmeal. was told that I could help get rid of body fat by controlling insulin. thoughts?

  9. I had my t levels tested after starting other testosterone boosters and was measured at 175ug/dl which I know is really low. Can this help?

    • A combination of Pine Pollen tincture and Tongkat Ali may help, especially if taken simultaneously. These should also help balance out other hormones, so even if they don’t work for your testosterone levels, you get other health benefits.

      And if you’re not happy with the results, we have a money back guarantee. In any case, I’d love to see your results if you decide to go for it.

  10. A very effective way to limit estrogen within the body is to try a supplement called MYOMIN –it works to block estrogen and allow free testosterone to reach maximum effectiveness. Also using Tongkat Ali will help increase testosterone levels naturally – -also will give testicles a boost in overall size — –

  11. Just happened on your website….you guys are great and knowledgeable….One concern I have….are your Chinese herbs checked for heavy metal content? I spend alot of time in China…I fly for Delta Airlines.Alot of their foods are full of heavy metals or poor quality etc.How do you check your herbs for purity and quality control? Thanks Korey

  12. Thank you for the article. I had no idea estrogen dominance could cause so many problems. I have had problems with low energy, poor athletic performance and breast enlargement since I was very young. I was always told, it just happens to some people. I will be ordering the pine pollen. I am very interested to see what kind of results I will have. I did not see any comments from women but I have a good feeling about this product.

  13. I am 66 years of age have low T level and have had ED issues for the past couple of years. I’ve ordered Pine pollen , but from reading the comments, I don’t think that it will necessarily encourage my body’s natural T. production, which is what I was looking for, rather than taking a Pharma drug which I believe doesn’t encourage body to naturally produce T. and probably discourages it because it is being produced synthetically.

  14. I have been reading your articles with some interest. With me when the doctors started repairing my lower end after a motorcycle wreak they began to notice my TESTOSTERONE levels were down to something like 12 and I began having issues with B 12 as well as Vit. d which my body was not processing on its own so higher types of both had to be used and yes one testicle was shrinking after they started the testosterone shots that level began to come back to close to normal level after 5 shots it was up to 28. So I am interested how your information may help me.

    • Sorry to hear that. I’m not sure what levels you’re referring to when you say 12 and 28 as those are super lower for total testosterone. Are you talking about free testosterone? This information may not be enough in your case, but it should be applicable to just about everyone to one degree or another.

  15. Hi there!
    Hope you help me with this problem. I am 42 year female suffering from hypothyroidism since 16 years taking medication for my problem since last 16 years.. Having so many problems with my health now.. Like low energy, sleeplessness at night, palpitation foggy blair eye sight mood swings depression memory loss etc etc…. Can’t explain more then that!! If you guys can help me with These problems!

  16. I have been on test injections for a couple of years to maintain healthy t levels.. taking .75 ml a week and managing 500 -750 t levels…I used pine pollen along with above for one week, t levels at 1456. Wow…

  17. Dam! I wish I had seen this 3 years ago after the morning I woke up and felt like I got hit by a truck, and have ever since (though I have figured out how to stay awake and a little more pain free). In a nutshell, My estrogen level a year or so ago, was 790. I went on double dose generic anti-estrogen and tree months later my count was 1890. So did tamofen and went to 780 and my last number were 792…that’s with 6 months on tamofen citrate!!! So I’m going to go to my Urologist, who I should of thought about going to 3.5 years ago. I did mention to him3 years ago I felt depressed, no libido, tired all the time and he looked concerned but didn’t do anything. Now that I have read this and some other stuff, I am better armed. I went to Whole foods when I went of Tamofen and they gave me Maca Root and Dim Plus. I went off them when I went to 780 but I shouldn’t have. Going to add Pine Pollen and hope in 2.5 months, when next blood workis done, it’s down. On top of this, I work out religiously (though it has taken a tremendous hit on intensity), so I think that may be helping me keep my head above water. But all those symptoms of high estro….I had/have them. Thanks for the info! It’s funny, I was just surfing and sometimes what I need just pops up!

    • Thank you for sharing. Yes, it is amusing how the “right” information (or even people) will come into our lives at exactly the right moment. Keep up the amazing work, I will be excited to hear of your progress when you add Pine Pollen into your regiment.

    • The recommended dosage is 1/2 to 1 teaspoon, 2x daily. Feel free to experiment though, as some people take up to three tablespoons per day when megadosing.

  18. U say the recommended dosage is 1/2 to l teaspoon, 2x daily. I got the mega dosage and it says recommended dosage is 3 tablespoons daily. Which should I believe. Just started, but still having a hard time with the taste. What do u recommend to get past that?

    • The recommended dosage for normal usage is indeed 1/2 to l teaspoon, 2x daily, but for megadosing the dosage increases significantly. Read more about megadosing here –

      Pine Pollen is actually one of the best tasting herbs we have. You could mix it in a juice to mask the taste or just gulp it down quickly with a glass of water/juice.

  19. Hi
    I’ve just started using the pine pollen and tincture just 2 days now so I am really young in the game but hoping to see some positive results. I am currently suffering from frequent urination and burning urination. I have recently started to take nettle root extract and tongkat ali to try and correct the problem.
    The info you posted on flax seed powder was an eye popper as i was up to the time of reading your article was downing several teaspoon of the powder to supplement for omega oil and fibre not knowing i was harming myself. So thanks very much for that.
    I saw where someone posted they are having problem with hypothyroidism. I have read that most of us suffer from a lack of iodine. Sometime back i was having heart palpitations and after some research i found out it could be attributed to my thyroids not functioning due to a lack of iodine. I started to take potassium iodide and that seemed to have done the trick as i dont have the palpitation no more. Recently i found out about ‘iodoral’. i have not bought it as yet but i got it for my mom and my wife as in my readings i found that females need iodine even in more larger quantities than men due to the amount needed for proper breast and ovary functions.

    Anyway thanks again for your informative articles and i will keep u updated.

  20. A while ago I purchased your pine pollen. I did not feel a positive change. I wanted to check it out further, so I did the 3 teaspoon dose before bed. I did not experience the morning wood. Could this be due to aromatization? Would taking nettle root with the pine pollen help?

    • It could be due to aromatization. It could be it will take some time to balance out the hormones. It could be anything unfortunately. Pine pollen is like anything else, and might just not be right for you. Certainly, taking it for a time to see if anything happens eventually is a good idea in my book. Herbs are subtle too, so while you might not noticed something it could be 3 weeks from now you notice you are in a better mood and have more energy then you use too. Herbs can be fast and loud, but that is not how they normally work. After all, they are not pharmaceuticals so expecting them to work as fast as them is tending towards the misguided side.

      Nettle root could help speed the process, certainly! Herbs are normally taken with supporting herbs in all traditions of herbalism. Perhaps your pine pollen just needs a little help to really get going?

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